[00:00:00] Introduction: Welcome to the REI Hacker Podcast, where we unlock the secrets of real estate success. Join us as we dive into the journeys of top investors, mentors, and industry experts. Learn from their experiences. Navigate the highs and lows of the investing world. And now let’s hand it off to our host, Benson Juarez.
[00:00:27] Benson Juarez: Welcome everybody. Thank you so much for being here today on this edition of the REI hacker podcast. I am. Uh, very fortunate to have my friend Darrin Carr with us. He is the CEO and founder of Carr Talent Acquisition, uh, a top tier, uh, recruiting firm, uh, that works with entrepreneurs. Uh, he also works with fortune 500 companies, uh, as well as, um, you know, startups and companies all along the spectrum, but most importantly, he does have, uh, a very important niche.
[00:00:59] In the real estate investing space. So, uh, Darrin, thank you so much for taking the time to be with us. I know you are super busy out there seeking top talent for all of your clients. How are you today?
[00:01:11] Darrin Carr: Really well, Benson. Thank you so much for asking. Always a delight to chat with you. You always bring this calm, cool, collected, positive energy with you.
[00:01:18] So whenever I talk with you, I’m always lead the conversation better than I entered it. So doing great and doing even better now that I’m chatting with you.
[00:01:27] Benson Juarez: Oh, I appreciate you being here. Um, it was important for me to get you on the podcast because of your experience in, in recruiting top talent. Um, we’re in a very interesting space right now with the economy, you know, depending upon who you listen to, you know, the economies they’re doing really bad, or it’s doing really good.
[00:01:46] And, you know, in, in all of that. There’s this search for, for people who are talented, who can come to your company and help you reach, you know, the different goals that you have, whether they’re revenue goals or whether it’s, you know, culture based goals. Um, what is going on in the employment world right now?
[00:02:04] What’s, what are the, the, what’s the top story?
[00:02:06] Darrin Carr: Yeah, good question. And one that, um, you’re right, regardless of what you think the economy is doing, one thing is for certain, and that is the labor market is strong and has been strong and keeps getting stronger and stronger and stronger. What’s that mean?
[00:02:21] There are more and more positions being added. Uh, and it’s more and more challenging, uh, to get the A players, uh, for instance, uh, in March, the economy added 300, 000 jobs, over 300, 000 jobs. That was well over Dow Jones prediction of 200. It was the same almost exact thing for the month before the month before.
[00:02:41] Um, you know, it, unemployment dropped again to 3. 8%. We’re still at record lows. Rate wages rose, uh, you know up even though, um, uh, A lot of factors, you know come to come to fore here um, but uh, a players usually have jobs and now and they need to be, uh, Found, uh compelled and poached and now it’s even more challenging because so many um, The labor market is is so tight right now.
[00:03:10] There are 60 percent of small businesses can’t find the people they want for their jobs and smaller companies like like, you know, most of the people probably listening companies with 250 employees are less account for 80 percent of the 10 million open jobs. There are right now. So it’s a little bit of a scramble to get who you need.
[00:03:31] Benson Juarez: Yo, it’s always challenging, you know, Privy’s in a big hiring, uh, stint right now. And we’re bringing in people from different places. There was a time period there when a lot of the technology companies were laying off big amounts of people, um, because they figured out there was way they were emulating, you know, the Musk approach, uh, where, you know, he was going in and, and, you know, trimming the fat and finding out that like, yeah, we can get rid of a big portion of our workforce and still be efficient.
[00:03:58] And now we’re saving all of this cost. How, how did that affect the job market?
[00:04:04] Darrin Carr: Yeah, by all, by most accounts, that tech session, as it’s called, is largely over. Um, and, uh, even when it was going on, what I saw from my chair was, um, the larger companies and the very large, largest companies were laying off, uh, people.
[00:04:20] A lot of those programmers, uh, business analysts, uh, they were, you know, kind of caught in mid tier to low tier companies, uh, size wise. And so I don’t think there was a huge amount of them out of out of employment for a long time is at least what I could see. But, um, in, uh, in general, what the articles I’ve read is just one here last week.
[00:04:39] The tech session now is finally over. Um, so people are hiring, things are getting back to normal in that part of the Uh, labor market, but they have remained strong in most of the other parts, um, regardless for twice there’s been added job growth for something like 26 months in a row. That’s, you know, crazy.
[00:04:58] Benson Juarez: Yeah. It sounds like that’s a pretty good trend there, but you mentioned something pretty interesting to us. The top tier talent already has jobs, right? And it’s an interesting conundrum for people who are going to hire where the good people are already taking. So what do they do in those situations?
[00:05:15] Darrin Carr: Yes.
[00:05:16] Um, well, one thing I tell you, you that I recommend people don’t do, and that’s rely on just job postings. Um, that’s the path to least resistance. That’s what every company, every most recruiters do. Actually. The dirty little secret of, uh, recruiting companies is all 80% and 90%, or maybe a hundred percent of what they do is exactly what you can do as a small business owner or medium or large size business owner.
[00:05:39] And that’s post, uh, a post an net. The, you know, the good folks, they, they have, they have positions, and they need to be found, compelled, and poached, and that is not super easy to do. Uh, it is, it’s a sales process. Good recruiting is good sales for the right people at the right points in the process. And so that’s, for instance, when we reach out, Uh, we are first question.
[00:06:04] You know, our outreach is Hey, you look amazing. I see you’re doing I see you’re doing this. That’s pretty impressive. We’re working with a with a company that’s doing that. And then here’s a little bit about what’s in it for you. Here’s a little bit about what you’d be doing. Do I learn about how your life could be a little bit better?
[00:06:20] It is sales. And that’s why, uh, you know, if you’re going to be a good recruiter and something I learned in my twenties in corporate, on my way up to being a director of recruiting for some billion dollar companies was golden rule of recruiting a player’s hire a player’s end of story. So, um, you’ve got, you’ve got to have that, um, you, that charisma, verve, hustle, uh, you know, the, the wherewithal to, to attract those sort of people, but it’s not easy.
[00:06:44] It’s a process and it’s, it comes from more than just passive. Uh, uh, outreach job postings, I can go into more detail, but I’ll let you, yeah,
[00:06:55] Benson Juarez: well, it’s, it’s an interesting process because it seems like if someone’s at a job, right, they’re likely happy with that job. And so, as a recruiter, you know, it’s a sales process, but is it also like a discovery process to figure out, like, are there cracks in that relationship?
[00:07:12] Is that person really happy? At that job or, you know, are there are the things that you can find maybe in their social media posts by doing a little bit of research, like a detective to see where those cracks could be. Is that part of the process?
[00:07:26] Darrin Carr: Yes, absolutely. Good, uh, instinct there, Benson. Um, maybe hitting you up for a recruiter job at some point.
[00:07:32] Yeah, that, that’s exactly it. They’re happy. They just don’t know they could be happier somewhere else with our clients. So we ask them questions. For instance, when we get them on the phone, a lot of clumsy, uh, hiring managers or recruiters, they’re, they’ll start interviewing right away. That’s, uh, really, um, naive.
[00:07:49] What we do, first question we ask is, what’s important to you? Right away. Number one, they, it shows we care. That’s, you know, that’s great because a lot of people don’t care or they don’t demonstrate it. Number two, it shows if our core, their core values align with our clients based on what is important to them.
[00:08:05] And number three, it shows us how to sell them. So they’ll tell us and we’ll, we’ll listen, but we know what has become more important since this pandemic pivot, when everybody had a year. reconfigure, rethink their lives on what’s important to them and work where they want to work, how, when, if they want to work, under what circumstances.
[00:08:26] So we know the questions to ask to get at the levers and they have to do with, uh, you know, flexible, you know, you can probably guess some of these, but we asked a lot about. You know, our both our clients and the candidates flexibility, work times and locations. Well, I mean, wellness and well being what sort of programs or awareness.
[00:08:45] Do you have that the workplace as a learning environment? What is the path that they’re going to get better? We asked them what currently what that is, right? It’s that gives us a little bit of whole little fingers in the crack to climb our way up. Um, you know, consistent feedback connection, ability to grow.
[00:09:00] That’s a big one for people. Take on more responsibility, even if not a promotion, at least more responsibility. Even more important than in previous generations, these last couple generations, ability to make meaningful contributions to the community and to the world. With that, that is more and more important.
[00:09:17] They believe in the cause. Reward for effective work. inspirational leadership, but I can tell you just the offhand lack of the why are people quitting their jobs? Well, lack of career development 41 percent inadequate compensations always up there 36 percent uninspiring uncaring leaders 34 percent lack of meaningful work 31 percent unsustainable work expectations 29 percent unsupportive colleagues 26 percent etc.
[00:09:45] Benson Juarez: So those percentages, it’s kind of hard to understand that, but what you’re saying is that money isn’t the biggest motivator out there. There’s a lot of other things that, that weigh in when people are trying to decide if they’re happy with a job or willing, if they’re willing to move on to something else.
[00:10:01] So like what percentage is, is. You know how much money they make versus everything else. Do you think?
[00:10:08] Darrin Carr: Well, it’s always going to be an important factor. Um, but it’s sort of, uh, it’s not the most important factor anymore and it has fallen, uh, you know, as these last few years have have have gone by. So, um, You know, uh, one of the qualifying questions would be, you know, how much money matters to them and how much money are we talking so people sometimes companies try to keep retain or get candidates or keep current employees with a minimal bump in their, you know, in their salary or their hourly and some little tiny title bump much more important to people is employability.
[00:10:46] What’s that mean? The company’s going to be around their job’s going to be around. It’s headed in the right direction. They see a path of personal growth. So the compensation has, as you know, it’s always important, but it’s less important than it was five years ago.
[00:11:02] Benson Juarez: Yeah. It sounds like, I think a lot of people are reevaluating, you know, how important a job is in the overall scheme of things.
[00:11:09] And, um, especially with people who make a certain level of money, right? Like if, if, if someone is, is just kind of making it, You know, check to check to check, you know, that, that they’re way more money, money motivated than somebody who is, you know, you know, a talent, right where they’re, they’re getting paid, you know, fairly well already.
[00:11:28] And at that point, they can be a little bit more picky about where they decide to, to, uh, settle in. Um, And then I guess that’s the difference too, as well with the people who do job posts on boards, right? Because they’re just looking for the average person. But if you’re really looking for that top talent, that’s why you should work with a recruiter, right?
[00:11:49] Darrin Carr: Yes, um, now I’ll say you one should be careful about the recruiter one chooses because there are all kinds of recruiters out there and you know, I’ve got some suggestions on how you pick one if you want. But as I mentioned, a lot of recruiters just post ads as you do and they won’t get to know your company culture intimately.
[00:12:07] They are, uh, they don’t have a, a, a, a great process for calibrating. candidates. Um, something we do early on before we even start reaching out to real candidates, Benson, uh, that we have, you know, contacted. We submit five, six test calibration candidates to our clients. We say, we just heard you during an intake meeting, a discovery kickoff meeting.
[00:12:26] We, we think we heard what you need exactly functionally and culturally. Here’s five people, what do you think of them? Tell us, like what, yes Darrin, hell yeah, yes on this person because I like this, um, you know, hell yes on this person because of that, maybe no on that person because I don’t like that background, whatever it is, but it really depends on the, on the recruiter, um, and there are some, you know, pros and some cons, and there’s some methodology, there are some things I would ask as you’re going into that, and I can elaborate if you like.
[00:12:57] Benson Juarez: Yeah, I would like to know more about like how to, how does somebody choose a recruiter? Like what are the main factors to consider? Um, and how important is it for a company to choose a recruiter that has like a niche, right? A niche recruiter who’s maybe only works for like tech companies or a recruiter who’s good at hiring sales people.
[00:13:17] Like, is that an important part of it? Or is, you know, if you’re just a kind of a general recruiter, that’s good enough.
[00:13:23] Darrin Carr: It can be, uh, dependent upon the industry, important to somewhat important, uh, I will say this. I, again, I’ll go on to the A players hire A players. If you have a mediocre recruiter who is niched up, who cares if they’re only hiring mediocre people, right?
[00:13:38] Um, so I would take the great recruiter who is a generalist over the niched up who is a mediocre recruiter. Um, so that, that’s my thoughts on that. You know, we do have a contingent number of recruiters here reserved for real estate investment jobs, acquisition managers, dispositions, lead managers, operations, all that.
[00:13:56] So we’ve got all, we’re all geared up for all that. But we also handle a lot of other industries as well. And there we have the expertise, time, tools, and process. That’s what, you know, separates us out. Pros and cons before I talk a little bit about, you know, what you should pick in a recruiter, you know, just quickly, you know, the cons of a recruiter, um, uh, you know, there are, short term costs.
[00:14:17] I’m going to say short term because, uh, you’re probably going to end up, if you’re not hiring well, rehiring costs you 32 percent of their first year wages, according to the Department of Labor, if they don’t work out. Um, you know, so there’s, there’s some costs associated up front with a recruiter. Time, time commitment, though, I don’t think quite as much as going it alone.
[00:14:36] I know that to be the case, because it takes the average small business about 99. 5 hours to hire end to end. Um, you’ll have to do research to get a good one. It’s possible the recruiter could misrepresent you and some recruiters are submitting candidates for multiple companies in multiple positions. So you need to be aware of that and cut that off if that’s the case.
[00:14:54] The pros are it’s usually a cost in time, you know, it’s usually a time and cost savings. Um, as I mentioned, if your average executive is worth, you know, business owner is making supposedly four or five hundred dollars an hour should be our time that, you know, that we’re worth times that times a hundred.
[00:15:09] You’ll get you get the cost that’s not even counting the opportunity cost. What you could you be doing when you’re recruiting. And then the morale costs if that person doesn’t work out to your team to you. Um, and then, uh, you know, the, the biggest factor though of using a recruiter, if you pick the right one, is that they are able to do active outreach.
[00:15:26] They spot people who aren’t looking for positions at this point in time, but they look amazing. And so they are, you know, they are reached out to compelled and poached. Um, so along the way, a good recruiter where we pride ourselves, for instance, in our, in our white glove advice and consulting to you. To uh, to our clients on what you should do during the process as we hand off after we hand off and to onboard hold their hand all the way talk to them about how to how we call it how to lock down a hire without ever making an offer so they know that really kind of smooth tactic and Uh, and then of course there are guarantees if you have a you know A good recruiter like we have both a 90 day and a one year guarantee So so those are some of the pros and cons in terms of how do you select a recruiter?
[00:16:11] I would just say You know, make sure they, uh, you observe or ask about how keen they are to get to know you and your company culture. Super important. We hire for four things and they’re equally important. Hungry, humble, smart, good cultural fit. That good cultural fit’s got to be there. You don’t have the retention and you’re going to be hiring, months later.
[00:16:32] So you need to have a recruiter who is invested in getting to know you and your company culture and really pushing that to the fore. Um, you know, how, how do they find most of their hires passive or active? What’s their process? You know, we want to see a rock solid process there. Um, you know, uh, what are their guarantees?
[00:16:51] What are their costs? Are they going to be a long term strategic partner? Are they going to throw spaghetti against the wall and just throw whatever candidates they want and they hope of one of 15 stick or are they carefully vetted three to five highly qualified, you know, interested candidates that which we provide and then track record get, you know, testimonials, um, you know, written or video or just simply, uh, the names and numbers of past clients you can call to check.
[00:17:17] Benson Juarez: Yeah. You know, I, I’ve talked to people who’ve had bad experiences before with recruiters and, um, you know, if, if someone hasn’t used a recruiter before, you know, what’s, what’s the behind the scenes recruiter scam that people should keep an eye out for? Like, are there companies out there that maybe they’re not above board?
[00:17:38] You know, they, they look good on the front end. They got good branding. They appeared to be good, but it’s just a problem waiting to happen. Like what should people really look out for when they’re choosing a recruiter? And what are some of those red flags?
[00:17:51] Darrin Carr: Yeah, great question. I would kind of go back to, they’re not asking you a lot of questions.
[00:17:55] That’s a big red flag. Uh, they are, you know, uh, sending, uh, they don’t have much of a process. They’re not helping you craft the job description and, and all the, you know, and the what we offer section. It’s important. A lot of companies don’t flesh that out nearly as it much needs to be monetarily and non monetarily.
[00:18:15] Right? And so a lot of agencies, they don’t help with that. They don’t hold your hand with that. And companies sorely need it. So I wouldn’t say it’s a scam in that regard, but it’s something they don’t do. And then it’s the spaghetti against against the wall thing. They have candidates that they have in their little system and they, you know, And they, and the minimum amount of work needed is to pull those candidates from their system and throw them out to people.
[00:18:37] And, uh, so that’s, that’s to be something to be watched for and to be on alert for, um, because they’re, they’re not caring so much about what’s a great fit for you culturally and functionally. They’re, they’re, they’re concerned about collecting the fee. And, um, so you really want to dig into their process.
[00:18:54] Yeah, we have a 15 point process and we go over it in every kickoff call. Like here, it’s, you know, it’s a done with you thing and a good recruiting process should be done with you, not for you because nobody knows your company better than you and we want to be, we want, what I say in our beginning of our process, it says.
[00:19:12] A good recruiter, a great recruiter, which we have a dozen of them, plus an engaged client and continuous communication equals a great hire. And if you don’t have that continuous communication or they don’t provide that, you don’t see in their process, you know, we need to meet once a week. We have emails that go out to show how many people we have contacted, responded, interviewed, all that, rejected, submitted, uh, if they’re not all in it that close and tight with you and they don’t demonstrate that in their process on the front end, that’s a red flag.
[00:19:42] Benson Juarez: Is there anything in the contract when you’re getting ready to sign with a recruiter or something in the compensation structure or plan that they’re going to get their fee that you, you would see something and be like, Oh yeah, that’s, that’s a red flag. Is there anything that you could maybe see like, Hey, you keep an eye out for these things in the contract that people, that’s
[00:20:01] Darrin Carr: a good question.
[00:20:01] I’m not a hundred percent. Um, wouldn’t be a hundred percent privy to other folks’s contract. I would pay attention to the, um, though the, uh, You know how that you are due a replacement if things don’t work out within a certain amount of time, right? Uh, some do 30 and 60 as I mentioned, some do 90 like we do.
[00:20:21] Um, and we also have like that one year guarantee. It’s if somebody doesn’t work out for any reason. Yeah, it’s not for absolute free, but it’s half cost. Uh, but I would just make sure that there are, you know, ironclad guarantees that that hire will be replaced. If you know, and I would push for 90 days. Uh, if if that person doesn’t work out for what.
[00:20:43] ever reason not just what they that that that is something specific. They will say that in some of them I know I have heard from recruiters who come to us from other companies that it will be for a very specific reason and they’ll get very technical. Well, they’ve left because of this and that. Uh, not particularly because of this, you know, it should just be, they’re not there in 90 days for whatever they left.
[00:21:04] They quit. They got struck by lightning. They moved to, uh, the Bahamas doesn’t matter. They should be replaced for free.
[00:21:10] Benson Juarez: Right. Okay. So there’s some like major line items there that people should pay attention to, but, but kind of in general, like what, what should a company be looking for an employee, obviously a cultural fit.
[00:21:22] And you mentioned a couple earlier, humble, hungry. Smart, you know, what are the things that a company should be on the lookout for that? Will make like a good employee just regardless of position.
[00:21:33] Darrin Carr: Yeah, right. Well, I’ll describe hungry, humble, smart and good cultural fit just with one sentence additional hungry.
[00:21:39] They got a reason for getting up in the morning and they’re super motivated. Uh, and it’s our job without breaking any rules. Uh, HR wise. to to learn what that is and how and how committed they are. Maybe they got a couple young ones they need to take care of. Maybe they are up to their next step and they’re, uh, you know, maybe they are restarting their life and they need to, uh, really hustle to make it back to where they were.
[00:22:03] Or if they’re just super motivated for whatever reason, but hungry, they have a reason for getting out a demonstrable. Reason for getting out of bed and really hustling humble. They are open to, they have a spirit of continuous improvement and they’re open to coaching and they’re, they are, they can receive that.
[00:22:20] Well, um, smart, lots of kinds of smart. What we want to see our solution smart. So, uh, for an acquisitions person, let’s say an R. E. I. It could be, you know, Hey, boss, I’m, you know, speaking with a seller. There’s this problem that’s come up this objection. Maybe I have thought it through. Here are two potential solutions I have.
[00:22:41] What do you think? Which one? Not what should I do? But I’ve thought it through. Here you go. And then good cultural fit would be, um, you know, that they are their core values, you know, match.
[00:22:56] You know, those are the most those are the most important ones. Um, you know, they may vary a bit depend certain qualities are dependent as we interview acquisitions and dispositions and operations and lead managers. There are different qualities we look for in different of those, of those positions.
[00:23:13] Acquisitions, for instance, we wanna see somebody who’s sort of half empathetic and half directive. I can’t imagine being in your situation. It’s gotta be stressful. I’m sorry you’re in it, but directive, but you need a plan. You’re gonna lose your house in X amount of days, and we got a solid plan here for you and recommend we move forward with that.
[00:23:27] Um, and it’s different for the different positions, but, um, those are some of the, some of the, you know, the, the, the big, the big, the big four for, for the general, for the general, um, what to look for.
[00:23:38] Benson Juarez: Yeah. You know, one of those is hungry and to me, it seems like it’s, there’s a dichotomy there. Like you want somebody who, who’s top talent, right?
[00:23:47] They’re seasoned, they’ve been around for a long time. It seems to me that their hunger would wane over time. And then the people that are brand new to the workforce, right out of college are looking to prove themselves. They’re going to be hungrier. Potentially, this is just how I view it. Is there something there that I’m getting right?
[00:24:05] Or does it, it doesn’t matter. It’s just, someone’s either hungry or they’re not.
[00:24:09] Darrin Carr: Well, I think you might be correct in, um, extrapolating that after. Some amount of time, uh, people’s hunger may wane. Uh, so we don’t talk about, um, uh, what we talk about is where people are in their career stage, you know, for legal reasons, moral reasons, everything.
[00:24:29] We never talk about age and nobody, you know, here does. And the clients we don’t, don’t either as well, but we can’t talk about where people are in their, in their career arc, right? Mm-Hmm. . And so typically for like acquisitions, we might, we might find that person. a year, two or three in their career arc.
[00:24:47] They’re out of school. They are, um, they, they are, they have that hunger that hasn’t waned yet. They are peaking up. We see, you know, they’re not over it. They’re not coachable. They’re not pessimistic. Um, that, you know, where the, where they’re at in their career arc can sometimes matter to us and to them and, and their level of hunger, whether we, without a doubt.
[00:25:08] Benson Juarez: But it really is, it’s a, it’s two sided coin, right? Because the, the company has to prove themselves to the, the candidate as well. Right? So like, usually the, the company’s thinking, Oh yeah, well, you know, the employee has to prove themselves to us, right? They’re, they’re the one that’s coming in to get interviewed, but really it’s both sides, right?
[00:25:27] So what does a company do to make themselves more interesting? Um, and more of like, uh, A place where somebody wants to work and attract that top talent.
[00:25:37] Darrin Carr: Yes. Uh, I will say that if one of the biggest mistakes is, um, what we always say, ABR always be recruiting if you’re a company, but also when you’re recruiting, always be selling the eight players have options.
[00:25:49] And, uh, some companies can get a little haughty and think everybody should want this company, everybody. I built this, right? It is great company. Everybody should want this. position when in fact, these people, uh, Benson are getting hit up two, three, four times a week. A lot of times when we contact them from other companies and recruiters, they’ve got options.
[00:26:06] So they need to be sold to, um, so, I mean, we have a short video and a guide called how to lock in your perfect hire without ever making an offer. And it starts at the beginning of the process, not at the end with some sort of clumsy offer. This is a little bit tangential, but I’ll just mention it because it’s super important.
[00:26:22] And I’m happy to provide any of your listeners. with this video or this guide. But it starts at the beginning, what’s important to you, then it’s checking in with them throughout the process. Okay, they had a first either good interview, second interview, and then it’s the, it’s step two. Hey, yeah, I see you’re doing well, and what questions might you have?
[00:26:39] Uh, you know, do you have, how are you seeing the cultural fit? You’re asking the questions, are you seeing any concerns? How are you comparing us to any other companies you’re interviewing with? Are you interviewing with any other companies? Oh, you are? Hey, could you do me a personal favor and not accept any positions until you talk with me?
[00:26:55] Little tactic I’ve learned. So it is this constant communication. Then as they’re progressing and They’re getting close. It’s a test close. Hey, if we were to offer you this position, if everything was looked good with the package, um, that we presented, would you accept? Oh, you would? Great. If not, why? What would be your concern?
[00:27:13] So you’re, you know, it’s just like a sales funnel, right? You are, you know, You’re getting the small yeses and you’re eliminating any potential objections until the point where you’re just really setting a start date at the end. So that’s a bit on the process, you know, on, you know, as far as, you know, how do you make your, your, your company attractive, uh, you know, you, you want to, you know, crystallize your company culture, you want to have a sentence or two, which describes it.
[00:27:38] One of our clients is we’re the company that values family first. So, uh, if we are X because of Y, which results in Z. We’re the company that focuses on family first. So, we insist on everybody attending their family events above company events. And that results in long term retention. In this case, 14 years, I think is the average stay of the person at this manufacturing firm that we’re helping.
[00:28:01] So, uh, crystallize your company culture, make sure everybody knows it, especially the people talking to the candidates. It’s surprising how often people don’t know it, even leaders, um, but everybody should be on the same page with, with what, uh, is, is, you know, is, is, is gonna make the difference so that, you know, Uh, with that particular candidate, but, you know, you, you know, you just want to show you a transparent, you know, about about the situation realistic with work expectations, um, you know, to let them know their again their path to education.
[00:28:36] Uh, how they’ll be celebrated, what, what resources will be available to them to be successful. Um, but those are, you know, some of the, some of the, you know, in addition to the things I talked about before, just demonstrating how you’re flexible and believe, you know, in their wellness and, you know, what learning you have for them, et cetera.
[00:28:56] Benson Juarez: Right. And that gets them in the door. Right. I mean, you can have a good written statement and you can, you could say all the right things. And then someone comes to work for you and they’re like, Oh my God, I, I got sold, right? Cause everybody puts their best foot forward on both sides, right? They wear their best suit and everyone’s showing up and saying the right things.
[00:29:15] And then the world, the real world hits, right? So where are companies going wrong with respect to retention?
[00:29:22] Darrin Carr: Yeah, that’s a that’s a big one. Yeah, you’ve got to walk the walk. That’s not just talk the talk. That is 100 percent true. Um, well, I would say that with retention to, you know, uh, The most important things are, you know, to have, you know, uh, you know, continual check ins.
[00:29:41] They’re regular, you know, you’re communicating your it’s a two way communication. You know, they can come to you with anything that they have on their minds. Um, that. You know, you can answer, but it’s, um, it is as constant communication situation, um, you, uh, with retention again, you want to, um, celebrate their successes, even if they’re small, or their progress towards towards the success, um, is is another 1, you want to, you know, make them people are complicated.
[00:30:11] So you want to understand. Here’s the most important thing I would say. People are driven by inspirational leadership. When you, when a, when a person, uh, and when I manage managers in corporate, and I manage managers now in my own, uh, but what I learned to do this is, it was when, uh, you can draw a dotted line from that individual’s goals.
[00:30:30] I want this. What do you want? Get to understand them. Uh, you know, my goals are this in life. I want a house. I want, et cetera. And you are able to connect those dotted lights to dotted lines to the company’s goals, right? The company wants this. And in the middle is that sweet spot. And both of you can meet there.
[00:30:47] Look, we get symmetry here. We both do what we want, both want to do. We both get what we want out of this. And we do it in a way that it’s, uh, you know, a, you know, uh, a positive work experience in addition to knocking out the goals. That’s the best, that’s the best, uh, definition I could give of inspirational leadership and probably the most important thing.
[00:31:07] And retaining folks.
[00:31:09] Benson Juarez: Yeah, it sounds like it, you know, I’ve, I’ve been in some pretty toxic work environs environments in the past and, you know, sometimes you just don’t see it coming in. A lot of people will just stick around because they don’t know if they have other options out there. And then there’s that whole, like, quiet quitting scenario where people are just, they’re doing just enough to get by.
[00:31:29] Um, But eventually, you know, people quit, right? So what are causing people to quit these days? Is it, is it the same as it was 10 years ago? Or are we seeing any new trends? What’s happening out there?
[00:31:41] Darrin Carr: Well, I know I’ve thrown a lot of statistics out, but I’ll give you one more because it’s shocking. Harvard did a study, um, just a couple of months ago on this.
[00:31:50] Um, And, uh, it was with salespeople, 57 percent of salespeople are looking for work right now. Even though they’re employed, most of them are employed and 40 some percent, 46 percent or something like that. Most of them rate themselves as satisfied or highly satisfied. So this is not your parents workforce, right?
[00:32:11] So they are looking for a job in that they’re updating their resume, they have a timeline leading, uh, for leaving the job, or they’re talking to me. Right. They’re talking to a recruiter that’s happening, even though these people are highly satisfied. So know that, uh, just within sales, um, which I’d say there is probably the most, a lot, a lot of the turnover you see in the workforce.
[00:32:30] Um, so, uh, you know, in terms of why are people leaving those jobs? Yeah, I would say because, you know, they, they’re not being, you know, uh, they’re not being treated. Respect is a big one. You know, we will occasionally, not very often, but occasionally have a candidate accepted position and they go in and they feel, That there is, you know, not the amount of respect that is, you know, back and forth respect that they would like on, you know, on the work expectations are off the charts.
[00:32:58] And they’re not what, you know, for instance, maybe what we were told instead of 9 to 5 then it leaks into weekends, et cetera. But other apart from that. Benson, it would be those things I mentioned. You know, there’s you, they don’t, they can’t see the career, especially for the younger generations. They can’t see that career advancement.
[00:33:15] Where am I going? How am I learning? Um, you know, uh, are people caring for me where I’m at? Do I believe in the cause? Have people explained the cause to me? Um, you know, uh, is the, is the work meaningful? Those, those are, you know, to recap some of the major reasons.
[00:33:30] Benson Juarez: Right. Yeah. Like you said, it’s, it’s so much more expensive to go out and get somebody new than it is to retain people, just like customers, right?
[00:33:39] It’s way more expensive to go out and find a new customer than it is to retain one. So companies should be investing in, you know, making sure that they live up to the expectation of the candidates they bring in and, you know, where can, where can companies get better in general? Like, What can companies do to make sure that they’re, they’re constantly improving so they can attract the top talent and then keep it, keep those people when they get them?
[00:34:06] Darrin Carr: Yeah, I would say during those regular check ins with their, you know, weekly or biweekly or whenever you have them with your employees, which is important to keep tight and you can bring up conversations like pay, for instance. I think, you know, it’s a subject that people kind of like want to steer away from, but, um, I, I think that needs to come up, uh, you know.
[00:34:26] Um, so how can companies do better? They can take those opportunities where they have this, um, communication to ask, you know, what are you enjoying here? How could things be better? What are you noticing about the culture? You know, we, we say we’re how we say we, these 4 things are important to us. You know, where have you seen that?
[00:34:46] demonstrated. Where can you see that I can be better? I mean, you’re asking for, we want to make this a better workplace for you. We’re on a continual vigil to make sure that happens. You know, what can you suggest to us? So it’s just getting that live feedback rather than ignoring it because you feel like you might have, there’s an icky feeling about going there.
[00:35:02] Like maybe I’ve fallen down a little bit in that it’s, you know, womaning or manning up and, uh, facing this situation and asking about it. And. And having a thick skin and not having this, um, you know, uh, this, uh, inclination, everybody should want to work for your company no matter what. Um, because people have options and they will choose another one.
[00:35:26] If you’re not, if you’re not aware of what’s important to them and, and, um, acting in their best regard. Right.
[00:35:34] Benson Juarez: But it’s worked too, for someone to pick up and move to another company. Right. Cause they, they, They have to start the process all over again. They have to go in and do the onboarding again and, you know, meet the new co workers.
[00:35:46] And there’s a lot of uncertainty there. So do some people just stay where they’re at because it’s just too much work to go find something else.
[00:35:54] Darrin Carr: Yes, but I would say I would propose that maybe those aren’t the people you want in your position that they’re so lackluster in their effort that they’re not even willing to improve their situation, their own situation with a little effort.
[00:36:05] You know, are they giving you what you need to make your company better? Um, so has somebody been there for 28 years and they, uh, are, uh, C minus. It might be time to, you know, or a C even, or a B minus, might mean time to reevaluate, especially if you’re committed to having A players in your team. Because I know one thing, an A player in, uh, in really any role, but some of the key roles in sales and operations, they’re game changers, they’re world changers, they’re life changers.
[00:36:31] So, um, uh, if somebody’s not willing to put in their own effort to go look for another, a job that put, might put them in a better, better life, then, uh, you might be concerned about what kind of, uh, effort they’re putting in for your company.
[00:36:44] Benson Juarez: That’s true. Well, let’s say an employer doesn’t notice that someone’s kind of just hanging around and biding their time.
[00:36:52] Um, what, what can an employer do to, to reinvigorate somebody, get them hungry again? Like they’ve been there, you know, there’s some sort of, um, you know, commitment to each other to help each other succeed. If an employer notices that someone’s starting to slack, what can they do?
[00:37:08] Darrin Carr: Yeah, I would do two things point one of two things or both.
[00:37:13] Um, I would point to another employee suggestion and ask for similar. All right. Uh, engage them is number one. You can do that by Hey, Todd, you know, just told us last week that perhaps we should reconsider the way we do X. And they got us thinking we should be asking, you know, people like you who have been here X amount of years on this same type of situation.
[00:37:32] So what do you think about that? Um, you know, instance. And then what have you seen? What else have you, you know, seen that? You, you know, if you feel like, you know, you would, you know, that could go better here. Um, so it would simply be engaging them and observing, you know, would you mind meeting me every couple of weeks and just for 10 minutes, we can kind of go over our, you know, our, uh, our plan for, you know, how we can, you know, get, you know, get better here and engage our employees even more than we are perhaps now.
[00:38:01] And you can observe through that how committed, how interested, how How engaged they are in, in that process or in that effort,
[00:38:11] Benson Juarez: right? So it’s a way of kind of starting a conversation without. You know, getting them scared about anything like, Oh my God, why are they asking so many questions or, you know, what’s going on here and maybe scaring them a little bit.
[00:38:23] Darrin Carr: Yeah, true. I always kind of put it on me. Uh, I don’t mind that. Uh, I don’t, I, you know, I think a big part of it is not having a big ego, right? Hey, listen, I’m, you know, I was 15 things I could get better at. I know one of them is, I haven’t done a lot of asking about this, so, you know, my, my bad, but what do you think?
[00:38:38] What, so I think that’s a way that you could, uh, uh, you know, approach it without intimidating, scaring.
[00:38:45] Benson Juarez: Yeah, there’s, there’s this big, like ongoing discussion and it happens a lot in the technology and startup world. Um, but I’m, I’m sure it happens out there in all different sectors and industries, but the, the W 2 versus the 1099 discussion, um, I know there’s pros and cons of both and maybe it’s not a big thing in the recruiting world, but I’m very interested to know what you think about this scenario where there’s, you know, for an employer, there’s, there’s, You know, pros to bringing on 10 99 people because you don’t have to do benefits and there’s some, you know, some savings there, but, you know, there isn’t the commitment.
[00:39:22] Like if someone actually is an employee and what are your thoughts about 10 99 versus W2?
[00:39:28] Darrin Carr: Yeah. Well, first of all, we have a complete. pros and cons list of both. So any of your listeners can contact me with contact information that we can provide at the end of this if you like. And I’m happy to send that out and it just really pretty straightforward outlines it.
[00:39:40] Um, but I think, uh, uh, the major, um, benefits and drawbacks of, um, 10 99 is, uh, you know, you, you can no matter what state you’re in, you, um, you can dismiss at will. You don’t need cause. You can simply end the agreement whenever you want. Um, and, uh, you don’t, obviously don’t need to spend the money to come up with the legal system to have the W 2 entity and, uh, withhold taxes and all that, you know, stuff.
[00:40:10] They need to do that on their own as 1099, as I’m sure most people listening to this know. Um, but, uh, yeah, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a. You know, it’s a cleaner. It’s be about I will say, by the way, 10 99 is becoming more and more and more accepted as, uh, as a permanent work solution for a lot of people. A lot of people don’t need the W two when they.
[00:40:35] Maybe 6 years ago, they thought they absolutely had to and now 1099 used to make people feel a little bit like vulnerable and that’s less. So now, uh, you know, so, uh, it’s more and more accepted as, you know, hey, you can be a long term part of this company and still be 1099. So, uh, for the employer, you don’t have the complications in the expense of a W, 2, and you can let people go at will.
[00:40:57] Um, and for, you know, for the employee, if they’re looking for, you know, benefits, you know, they, they may, they may pass you over, you know, because there’s no, there’s no benefits, but there are ways around that. If you are 10 day night, uh, and little tactics, a lot of small businesses might not know, like. Hey, health, health insurance is really important to me.
[00:41:17] So I’m going to pass on your position. What, what, hold up, wait a minute. Like, uh, let’s talk about this. What we can commonly work out is some sort of monthly stipend. That is not that much more than the hourly or the salary that you would have agreed upon anyway, uh, four or five, 600 bucks a month, whatever.
[00:41:33] Sometimes 300 will do it, uh, toward their health benefits. They can put it to however they want. And she just puts in their regular check. So there are ways of kind of getting around. The, the disadvantages of a 1099 for, for somebody on that system.
[00:41:49] Benson Juarez: Yeah, I do see there’s a shift there, um, in what people are looking for.
[00:41:54] And, you know, when you’re 1099 too, you could be more agile, right? You can go from company to company. You don’t have to like really. Um, you know, sell your soul to the company you’re going to work for. Um, is that, is that a trend that you’re noticing as well?
[00:42:08] Darrin Carr: Well, actually one, it reminds me though, the, the, the one drawback, uh, and the laws have recently got a little bit tighter on this, especially in California.
[00:42:16] Uh, but, uh, it regarding 1099, you are not supposed to be able to tell them. Exact, uh, exactly how to do their job and when they’re to do their job. Now, do I see a lot of, you know, to be quite frank with you, do I see a lot of companies using, using 10 90 nines where they gotta be at 15 meetings a day? I do.
[00:42:36] Um, so I don’t know how much people are aware or alert or concerned about that, but it is the law that you shouldn’t be, um, you know, uh, telling people exactly, you should give them a scope of work. And set them off to it. And you of course give them goals and, and, uh, achievables and KPIs, of course. But, um, you’re not to be able to tell them really exactly how to do that.
[00:42:59] Uh, and that they need to be doing it at a specific time.
[00:43:06] Benson Juarez: You know, a lot of work goes into like. Finding the right candidate and bringing them in and, you know, the, the recruiter can, can bring all these people to the table, but ultimately it’s going to be that, that interview that really, you know, sells that position, right. Or where the, the candidate can sell themselves.
[00:43:22] Like what’s, what are some of the key, you know, things that people should keep an eye out for during that interview process from an employer’s perspective?
[00:43:31] Darrin Carr: Yeah. Well, first of all, number one, I can’t underscore the importance of building a hiring blueprint. Aka or part part of that is in a candidate assessment path.
[00:43:39] What’s what stages you’re you’re having the candidate go each candidate go through making sure they’re similar and fair for everyone, making sure every stakeholder who you know, first second interview, first interview, second interview, third interviewer, they all know what part they have to play in that.
[00:43:54] So that hiring blueprint, we have a whole guide on that happy to send all your listeners that as well. So just number one, that is super important. Um, I would, um, Make sure that’s all laid out and who’s asking about what often we’ll have the first interview can be 15 minutes 10 to 15 minutes and it could be on A little bit of experience and culture.
[00:44:14] Are they a fit then it’ll go on to skills for the next interview, etc Etc. So you need to have that mapped out of what you’re going to do in general Just understand how the candidates aspirations fit into your job and your company Um, you know I would say don’t hyper focus on the past. Uh, you can ask, you know, I tried to get a quick assessment of what they’ve done, but I don’t, I don’t fixate on, on that for 45 minutes.
[00:44:39] Uh, in his quick, instead of questions of how did you, I like to ask questions about how would you in this position. So don’t fixate, don’t hyper focus on the past. Um, make sure that, um, the candidate spends a good amount of time with your team so they can get to know, you can see the spark in the interaction.
[00:44:55] Pay attention to the questions they ask. They shouldn’t be about every, the, the, all the questions shouldn’t be about what’s in it for them. Rather, you want to hear questions about how they would succeed in the role. What resources would I get? Who am I working with? What’s my path? How would I get training?
[00:45:08] What can I, they’re already envisioning themselves in the role. That’s gold. Um, you want to, um, you know, you can, uh, what the gold standard of all. Um, recruiting after we interview and we find, compel, poach, send them along, we, we present, you know, short interview, longer interview, maybe an assessment, um, but job shadowing is the gold standard, in my opinion, for instant acquisitions, you’re walking into a house, um, you know, uh, into the seller’s place, and it’s live, it’s real time feedback, you’re, you know, you, you’re, you know, Number one, the candidate gets a real view of what’s happening, what that’s all about, what that job’s all about.
[00:45:49] And then as soon as you leave the house, it could be, what do you think went well? What didn’t go well? What would you do as a next step? What, you know, what way you’re getting real time feedback and getting their assessment. So job shadowing, I would also say, if at all possible, a social setting after all the interviewing lunch or dinner.
[00:46:05] That’s really when, uh, you see something like they say something, they think that their shoulders drop, they do, they breathe deep, they think it’s all over, and then they’ll say something crazy they shouldn’t. Uh, or you see them spark with your team. You’re like, damn, this is a good fit. Uh, so yeah, I would definitely say a social Occasion.
[00:46:20] So in, you know, work, you know, think about who would another thing is think about who you would work for. If the roles were reversed, would you work for them? Um, I would say don’t skip steps, but don’t draw out the process because, uh, it, the average candidate right now is around for about two weeks before they’re snapped up from somebody.
[00:46:40] So you have to move with some expeditiousness here, uh, without skipping steps. And lastly, You know, you use that hiring blueprint, that candidate assessment path to have an objective analysis. Uh, but you know, you need to trust your gut to some extent too. If you got a bad, if you got a bad feeling in your stomach, uh, you probably want to turn away.
[00:47:02] Benson Juarez: Oh yeah. At the end of the day, sometimes it’s just your gut, right? You can, you can have all the checklists and you can have the best processes and you can have all this stuff, which is important. But at the end of the day, you got to look at somebody in the eyeballs and just get a good feeling or bad feeling from them and then make that decision.
[00:47:20] Right. Yeah, absolutely. So you mentioned a couple of resources. Um, so anybody who’s listening, is this something we can put in the show notes and people can kind of click those and, and see some of these checklists and some of these resources you’ve talked about.
[00:47:34] Darrin Carr: Yes, absolutely. Um, we can definitely put that link in there.
[00:47:38] Um, it’ll um, Yeah, and we what we have got and I don’t mind sending everybody. Uh, here is we have a uh, It’s a full hiring guide and it’s really an a to z and everybody says Darrin Why do you give away all this stuff? It’s because a uh, I I I’m just generous by nature. I think uh number two. I’d like to see companies hire Well, you know what?
[00:48:00] And number three, it lays out all the steps, the tricky parts, uh, you know, that we help with where the average company can’t really do is the finding people is the compelling to people. So I’ve given the people all the steps, but really a lot of the magic happens by having someone who knows can spot a good profile, a good, a good person who can approach them in a way that speaks to them.
[00:48:21] You flip them over to your side, assess them expertly and compel them along the way. So happy to ride that complete hiring guide to you and any listeners via a link or an email address in the show notes.
[00:48:32] Benson Juarez: Amazing. And so if people do want to connect with you, Darrin, where can you, where can they find you?
[00:48:37] Are you on social media? Do you have a website they can go to?
[00:48:40] Darrin Carr: Yeah, um, uh, my email address and my website, uh, Darrin at Carrtalent, D A R R I N at C A R R talent. com and then W W W dot CarrC A R R talent. com. You can, uh, book an appointment if you want just, uh, any tools or we’d love to give free advice, uh, so book, book me there.
[00:49:03] You know, either one of those, uh, uh, potential, uh, places.
[00:49:08] Benson Juarez: Amazing. Well, we only just scratched the surface. Obviously, there’s way more that goes into, uh, you know, finding the top talent, but also from, you know, the candidate perspective. So anybody who’s out there who’s looking for some direction, um, you definitely talk to, uh, Darrin and his team.
[00:49:25] They can certainly be a good resource for you. Um, but Darrin, thank you so much for taking the time. Really appreciate you, uh, sharing some of the insights and, you know, behind the curtain of what’s going on in the, the employment world and the labor markets. And so, uh, appreciate you sharing that information with us.
[00:49:42] And for those of you that, um, you know, got some value out of this, please Like, and follow. We got more amazing guests. They’re going to be on the REI hacker podcast in the near future. Tips, tricks, entrepreneurship, business, real estate investing. Um, but thank you so much for listening and we’ll see you next time.
[00:49:59] Everybody have a great day.
[00:50:02] Introduction: That’s a wrap on today’s real estate revelations. Thank you for tuning into the REI hacker podcast. Remember, every property has a story, and every deal is a lesson. Until next time, keep hacking the real estate world.